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#1 2018-05-30 22:20:57

Gateside
DF Members
Name: Nigel Gilligan
From: Cumbria
Registered: 2011-08-26
Posts: 1019

Cranefly Limonia nigropunctata - could this be anything else?

I am checking to see if this could reasonably be questioned as an ID, especially since I did not get great pictures of it (vegetation obstructed of course), and there are very few previous obs for Cumbria.

It looks like the clear wings, with 3 spots near the costal margin, and a thorax flushed orange-pink, mostly on the dorsal surface, the well-defined black line from the neck extending backwards down the thorax .. in fact the whole thing looks good to me, except for the image quality!

Nigel G.

PS. And yes, I did notice the orange mite, but then this seems quite a common attachment for craneflies.


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Last edited by Gateside (2018-05-30 22:25:00)

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#2 2018-05-31 14:06:13

AliCullaloe
DF Members
Name: Ali Shuttleworth
From: Fife, VC85
Registered: 2014-08-20
Posts: 81
Website

Re: Cranefly Limonia nigropunctata - could this be anything else?

I'd say L.phragmitidis. There are lots around here (Fife) right now and they also often seem to have mites on their thorax.

(edit: yeah - don't know. would need to re-check the key and is it a gendet job even?)

Last edited by AliCullaloe (2018-05-31 14:11:08)

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#3 2018-05-31 17:39:19

Gateside
DF Members
Name: Nigel Gilligan
From: Cumbria
Registered: 2011-08-26
Posts: 1019

Re: Cranefly Limonia nigropunctata - could this be anything else?

Thanks Ali.

Yes, you are probably right - a gen. det. job. No specimen! End of the road, I think, but will see if anyone knows better.

Nigel G.

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#4 2018-05-31 20:52:24

Tony Irwin
DF Members
Name: Tony Irwin
From: Norwich
Registered: 2008-03-01
Posts: 762

Re: Cranefly Limonia nigropunctata - could this be anything else?

I'd agree with Ali.  L. nigropunctata has a black abdomen, so this combination of body colour, thoracic stripe and wing markings takes it to phragmitidis or stigma. The dark ring on the femora is subapical, so should be phragmitidis.

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#5 2018-05-31 23:43:53

Gateside
DF Members
Name: Nigel Gilligan
From: Cumbria
Registered: 2011-08-26
Posts: 1019

Re: Cranefly Limonia nigropunctata - could this be anything else?

Thanks again, Tony. (and Ali)
So fortunately no specimen required. I'd rather be wrong and get corrected than not try at all. I'd made the assumption that the venation belonged to just one species, then I must have found an image supposedly for that species which looked good, and thought "bingo". But it couldn't have been correctly labelled!

Nigel G.

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#6 2018-06-01 02:02:22

Tony Irwin
DF Members
Name: Tony Irwin
From: Norwich
Registered: 2008-03-01
Posts: 762

Re: Cranefly Limonia nigropunctata - could this be anything else?

I do think there is some confusion with these species - for instance some pictures in the Diptera.info gallery are of specimens I would call phragmitidis which have been identified by Pjotr Oosterbroek as nigropunctata! Perhaps someone else can comment?

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#7 2018-06-01 09:33:40

Gateside
DF Members
Name: Nigel Gilligan
From: Cumbria
Registered: 2011-08-26
Posts: 1019

Re: Cranefly Limonia nigropunctata - could this be anything else?

.....and while some of the images for L. nigropunctata in the" Catalogue of the Craneflies of the World" have a black abdomen, one has a mid brown-grey sort of colour, and one from above through the wings implies a mid-range, not a black abdomen.


.. going on holiday now!...

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#8 2018-06-01 12:16:36

johnkramer
DF Members
Name: John Kramer
From: Oadby, Leicester
Registered: 2008-02-20
Posts: 248

Re: Cranefly Limonia nigropunctata - could this be anything else?

L. nigropunctata is a variable species, which doesn't help !!  The back of the head of this specimen is clearly black and it is grey in L. phrag.  There are some dark markings on the abdomen, the wing tip seems darkened, and there is a lack of a clear yellow band at the top of the front femora.   On those features the evidence comes down in favour of L. nigropunctata.  (The coxites and styles of Limonia genitalia are very similar so it is a long job to examine the bits.  The small parameres of phragmitidis and nigropunctata are different.)
John K

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#9 2018-06-01 13:01:34

AliCullaloe
DF Members
Name: Ali Shuttleworth
From: Fife, VC85
Registered: 2014-08-20
Posts: 81
Website

Re: Cranefly Limonia nigropunctata - could this be anything else?

I better break out that pinned L.phrag I have ... and maybe collect one or two more!

Cheers
Ali

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#10 2018-06-01 17:00:06

Tony Irwin
DF Members
Name: Tony Irwin
From: Norwich
Registered: 2008-03-01
Posts: 762

Re: Cranefly Limonia nigropunctata - could this be anything else?

Thanks, John
- evidently my concept of nigropunctata was too restricted. I can see a bit of dissection is on the menu!

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