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#1 2018-08-31 09:47:46

Gateside
DF Members
Name: Nigel Gilligan
From: Cumbria
Registered: 2011-08-26
Posts: 1012

Is this a Sciomyzidae fly?

Before I waste time barking up the wrong tree, am I right in thinking this is a Sciomyzidae species.
(so I probably won't be able to identify it from photos, but I thought I ought to at least put some label on it)

Nigel G.


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#2 2018-08-31 14:51:39

Laurence Clemons
DF Members
Name: Laurence Clemons
Registered: 2008-04-02
Posts: 371

Re: Is this a Sciomyzidae fly?

Looks like a Tetanocera species.

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#3 2018-08-31 14:59:16

Gateside
DF Members
Name: Nigel Gilligan
From: Cumbria
Registered: 2011-08-26
Posts: 1012

Re: Is this a Sciomyzidae fly?

That's what I was thinking, but didn't like to say in case it was a step too far!

Thanks Laurence!

Nigel G.

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#4 2018-09-03 14:18:29

Gateside
DF Members
Name: Nigel Gilligan
From: Cumbria
Registered: 2011-08-26
Posts: 1012

Re: Is this a Sciomyzidae fly?

Following on from the suggestion of Tetanocera species, I looked at Steven Falk's collection

https://www.flickr.com/photos/63075200@ … 787840986/

I was able to eliminate most quite confidently, especially on the basis of comments made about each species in relation to the appearance of the area from the frons across to the occiput, plus the observations on the appearance of the thoracic dorsum, and the fact that the wing costa has some darkening.

I was left withonly 2 possibles - Tetanocera punctifrons and Tetanocera arrogans. But the latter has a pair of strong bristles towards the tipof the hind femora, whilst mine has only one. If there were 2, then one would have to hide behind the other remarkably well, and I see no suggestion of a 2nd spine. The appearance, especially of the area over the top of the head, makes me believe this is in fact Tetanocera punctifrons. Additionally, I think I can see the dark strip along the edge of the thorax, visible in the magnified image now uploaded.

Habitat is fine - sandy coastal, with marshy areas and small pools created for bird habitat. Only about 5 km from a previous observation made by Dipterists Forum visit to Sandscale Haws.

Nigel G.


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#5 2018-09-03 22:06:53

Geoff F
DF Members
Name: Geoff Foale
From: South Devon
Registered: 2014-05-12
Posts: 192

Re: Is this a Sciomyzidae fly?

Tetanocera are a family which I keep trying, but usually give up in a state of total confusion. However, I would say the occipital spot is wrong for arrogans

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#6 2018-09-04 08:52:49

Gateside
DF Members
Name: Nigel Gilligan
From: Cumbria
Registered: 2011-08-26
Posts: 1012

Re: Is this a Sciomyzidae fly?

Yes, in fact I don't often bother to try, buy avoid them if I recognise them. I've put quite a bit of time into this one, so I think I will iRecord ... unless of course someone tells me not to waste any more time!

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#7 2018-09-04 09:21:11

Rainieria
Committee
Name: Darwyn Sumner
Registered: 2008-02-20
Posts: 349

Re: Is this a Sciomyzidae fly?

On a positive note, I'm convinced that the genus is doable from photographs. I have a collection of images myself which I'll complete eventually, some of them backed up by specimens. We've had a go at specimen identification in informal sessions at Preston Montford workshops in the past and even then they seem to present problems to some, though strangely I can always put a name to them. The key I used was the one I put together from a combination of Roskosny, Vala and Rivosecchi but now you also have Stuart Ball's workshop key. Paul Beuk and others have a crack at Tetanocera on the Diptera.info site, have you done a search there for the genus? not just the gallery but also the identification requests.
Please persist, they are nice beasts to find and it might be possible to compile some sort of pictorial guide to ID in the future (images with arrows on them pointing out the salient features - sort of thing) perhaps using a table of characters rather than a key to at least narrow it down.

Last edited by Rainieria (2018-09-04 09:33:55)


Darwyn Sumner
DF Bulletin Editor, Scheme Organiser: Stilt & Stalk Flies

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#8 2018-09-04 18:23:33

Gateside
DF Members
Name: Nigel Gilligan
From: Cumbria
Registered: 2011-08-26
Posts: 1012

Re: Is this a Sciomyzidae fly?

I feel more positive already! Hopefully Geoff will read this and think the same.

I haven't yet had time to progress this one at the moment. But I got the impression from Steven Falk's collection that there was enough in the way of easily visible features to get a pretty good idea of a species, or at least narrow it down, without the need to get awkward ventral views, or otherwise microscopic features. If it can be taken all the way from photos, that would be great.

I shall have a further look soon at what Dipterists Info have in the way of ID comments and useful images.

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#9 2018-09-04 22:03:59

Geoff F
DF Members
Name: Geoff Foale
From: South Devon
Registered: 2014-05-12
Posts: 192

Re: Is this a Sciomyzidae fly?

It is a family where they often sit still long enough to get close and take photos from several angles, so I usually shoot some photos when I encounter them. But that is the easy bit!

I have gradually been putting together a selection of photos to cover various Tetanocera species but often seem to find individuals which don't readily conform to the 'standard types'. Using both the Darwyn and Stuart keys.

Perhaps, as things start to quieten down this autumn, I will post some photos here and ask for a double check to see if I am getting close with my suggested identifications.

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#10 2018-09-05 09:45:05

Rainieria
Committee
Name: Darwyn Sumner
Registered: 2008-02-20
Posts: 349

Re: Is this a Sciomyzidae fly?

It's also worth taking a look at Malcolm Storey's macro work at https://www.bioimages.org.uk/html/Sciomyzidae.htm


Darwyn Sumner
DF Bulletin Editor, Scheme Organiser: Stilt & Stalk Flies

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#11 2018-09-05 17:50:57

Rainieria
Committee
Name: Darwyn Sumner
Registered: 2008-02-20
Posts: 349

Re: Is this a Sciomyzidae fly?


Darwyn Sumner
DF Bulletin Editor, Scheme Organiser: Stilt & Stalk Flies

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#12 2018-09-05 20:38:15

Gateside
DF Members
Name: Nigel Gilligan
From: Cumbria
Registered: 2011-08-26
Posts: 1012

Re: Is this a Sciomyzidae fly?

That looks like powerful stuff that FSC have produced!

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